Recently, Barack Obama talked to Stevie Wonder on a new podcast called The Wonder of Stevie about Wonder’s legacy and how Stevie gave him hope.

Wonder said, “I was born. Shortly after that, I’m blind. My mother went through the different things, and so my experience with that was deep.”

Obama added, “And he was right. I will say this: your version of optimism that is not blind to pain and tragedy and history, but that shows us what’s possible, that gave me hope, gave Michelle hope, gave a lot of people hope.”

He added, “And so, it turns out that that spirit through your music has carried forward and is still doing its work.”